Catholic Church of the Pedophile Priest

Introduction

I really don't mean to offend Catholics. They have a lot of good points other than their pedophile priest issue, but the scriptural-requirements for church-leadership are clear. The scriptures say church-leadership is supposed to be "married with children" -- not members of NAMBLA (the North American Man Boy Love Association).

God in His wisdom, through His anointed prophet, the Apostle Paul, gave us His divine guidelines for choosing a church pastor in 1st Timothy Chapter 3:1-6, which specifies that he should be married with children, and have a good reputation that can be verified.

Even in human terms the reasoning is fairly obvious:
1) a married minister has more accountability because of a wife and a family.
2) a married minister has an outlet for his sexual drive with a wife.
3) a married minister with a family has more to lose from foul play.
4) a married minister brings more history with him that can be examined by talking to the wife and his children.
5) a married minister with children has more eyes watching his daily conduct.

Here is where the RCC has gone wrong with their ministry:

1) Catholic leadership is not allowed to marry, and hence ALL of these aforementioned safeguards are forfeited.
2) Furthermore, the secrecy, authority, trust, and access to children are like a magnet for child predators that have no interest whatsoever in marrying another adult. They are only interested in child sex.
3) They disguise themselves as trustworthy priests when they are criminals.
4) Furthermore, the catholic hierarchy knowingly breaks the law by harboring these known felons from justice.

Background

Many centuries ago, the Catholic Church departed from God's plan for church-leadership. Today, in the information age, where everything is out in the open, the Catholic Church continues to make the news with sexual abuse law suits. Here we see ordained priests that are MARRIED to NO ONE, and molesting someone else's CHILDREN while their superiors look on with indifference. These pedophile priests are criminals. They bring shame and reproach to the entire church body. The reputation extends far beyond the RCC (Catholic Church) to all of Christendom. I'm sorry, but as Christians, we can't just ignore it and call it a catholic issue, because it tarnishes the name of Christ.

From pedophile to priest -- a "pedo-priest" as it were -- this is not what God intended for the ministry, for the church body, or for sexual conduct PERIOD. We often hear about sex scandals in other church denominations, whether it be Haggard, Bakker, or Swaggart, but the RCC takes the unique spotlight for child sexual abuse -- in particular man-boy sexual abuse.

In 1st Timothy Chapter 3, the apostle Paul (who was not married) gave the blue print specifications for a bishop:

1 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

As verse 5 says, the bishop can not take care of the church if he can't even take care of his own family. The "husband of one bride", having a "blameless" reputation, known for "good behavior." This doesn't sound like a pedophile catholic priest AT ALL.

The catholic denomination claims the bishop is "married" to the church; however Christ does not share His bride with anyone. That would be adultery. Besides that, Peter was married, and he was supposedly the first pope of the Catholic Church.

The catholic interpretation and requirements DO NOT compare to scriptures. Unmarried priests help the Catholic Church save money, so I hear, with no inheritance going to a spouse or to children. Economically convenient -- but the bible blue print has been altered -- and the plan is not founded in God's Word.

News and Commentary

So we read the news headlines and see stories like this:

"LOS ANGELES - The Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Los Angeles will settle its clergy abuse cases for at least $600 million, by far the largest payout in the church's sexual abuse scandal. "

"The settlement would be the largest ever by a Roman Catholic archdiocese since the clergy sexual abuse scandal erupted in Boston in 2002. Among the largest total payouts was $100 million in 2004 by the Diocese of Orange, Calif., to settle 90 claims. The Archdiocese of Boston agreed in 2003 to pay $84 million for 552 cases, roughly the same figure the Diocese of Covington, Ky., agreed last year to pay to settle about 360 claims. Facing a flood of abuse claims, five dioceses — Tucson, Ariz.; Spokane, Wash.; Portland, Ore.; Davenport, Iowa, and San Diego — sought bankruptcy protection.Last month, the Archdiocese of Portland agreed to pay about $52 million to 175 people, while setting aside another $20 million for anyone who comes forward in the future.The Diocese of Spokane, Wash., also recently emerged from bankruptcy protection after agreeing to pay $48 million to settle about 150 claims. "

"The largest of those came in December, when the archdiocese reached a $60 million settlement with 45 people whose claims dated from before the mid-1950s and after 1987 — periods when it had little or no sexual abuse insurance. Several religious orders in California have also reached multimillion dollar settlements in recent months, including the Carmelites, the Franciscans and the Jesuits."

Note that the RCC has sexual abuse insurance for its clergy. That is truly amazing! While everyone else thinks about medical insurance or life insurance, their leadership needs sexual abuse insurance. Wow!

Sadly, the story doesn't end with the priests, but we read their leadership covered it up, shuffling the pedo-priests from parish to parish where they did the same thing all over again. The leadership became negligent accessories to the crimes, and a legal battle looms over their records. Yet they aren't honest enough to admit guilt, so who is supposed to believe them when they say they are sorry? They were aware of the problem all along, which has gone on for decades and possibly even centuries.

News Analysis

The following analysis is posted courtesy of the Boston Globe. In summary, the pedophile priest abuse is a catholic phenomenon. It has been researched in many Protestant denominations, but the Catholic Church is in a class by itself on this issue. There is no comparison.

News Commentary from:

http://www.boston.com/globe/spotlight/abuse/stories/031302_abuse.htm

All faiths question handling of abuse
Debate over celibacy as factor is rancorous
By Michael Paulson, Globe Staff, 3/13/2002

''There are absolutely no Protestant equivalents,'' said Anson D. Shupe, a professor of sociology at Indiana University-Purdue University in Fort Wayne who researches clergy misconduct. ''If I could find some spectacular cases, that would help my career, but I can't. You don't have rapacious serial predators, and the Protestant establishment doesn't tolerate it the way the Catholic establishment has.''

"By contrast, Protestant and non-Christian denominations have had so few reported cases that their leaders can generally count them on one hand. A 1999 study of clergy misconduct, in which academics with the Hartford Institute for Religion Research spoke with 76 ministers who had, over the last 40 years, served 532 different congregations in 14 different denominations, turned up no instances of sexual abuse of children in the Protestant congregations studied."

"But, as diocese after diocese around the United States acknowledges that it has employed multiple priests accused of molesting children over the last several decades - the contrast with other denominations seems to be growing."

''The Catholic hierarchy has stonewalled any attempts to do any kind of study on this issue, and they've had offers to do it,'' said Rev. Thomas P. Doyle, a Catholic Air Force chaplain, who, as a canon lawyer working at the Vatican Embassy in Washington in 1985, wrote a report on the problem of clergy sexual abuse that he says was ignored by the bishops. "

"Priests are more able to abuse children because of the extraordinary amount of authority and reverence they enjoy within the Catholic Church. Protestant and Jewish clergy are generally less powerful within their congregations, and can often be fired by laypeople."

"The only non-Catholic denomination that has been plagued with allegations of widespread child sexual abuse is the Hare Krishna movement, a small Hindu-like sect. Scores of people have alleged that they were sexually abused as children at Hare Krishna boarding schools in the 1970s and 1980s."


Biblical Rebuttal

In the gospels, Jesus Christ tells us what He thinks about child-molesters that target the church body:

Matthew 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Mark 9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
Luke 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

According to scriptures the shepherds of the RCC flock did a really poor job:

John Chapter 10:

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. 13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

The hireling flees because he doesn't care for the sheep. A hireling doesn't look out for the sheep -- a hireling looks out for himself. Catholic clergy claim they are "married" to the church, but the pedophile priests look more like the wolf, and the negligent bishops look more like the hireling shepherd that fled.

Conclusion

Some RCC members tell us that ALL the church denominations are involved in pedophilia, and they should ALL share equally in the blame. Unfortunately other Christians ARE sharing in the blame, and it's NOT because they are guilty. We just can't trust God's plan -- so we're told by some Catholics. Come on, we're not buying it! The Lord told us how to choose church-leadership, and somebody failed to do it right.

The Lord gave us the blue-print for building church-leadership, and somebody isn't using it. No wonder there are flaws. God is the architect and He gave us the specifications through the apostle Paul. The specifications say: MARRIED WITH CHILDREN. God knows best. Good day to you.

UPDATE 4/18/08

Pope Benedict XVI working to clean up the priesthood
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080419/ap_on_re_us/pope_us

While visiting in the USA, Pope Benedict has committed to work on the Catholic priest abuse issues. Stating he wants quality over quantity, he proposed an overhaul of administrative procedures to make it easier to purge out pedophile priests. He also met privately with abuse victims.

"He spoke privately with victims — in what is believed to be the first time a pope has met with people who had been abused by priests. He also told bishops the problem had sometimes been very "badly handled" — an indirect but clear papal admonition. Benedict could take up the issue again Saturday in a Mass at St. Patrick's Cathedral with priests from around the country.
So far, Benedict has offered support to America's clergy during his visit.

He said priests who had done nothing wrong had been unfairly tarred by the crisis. More than 4,000 clergy have been accused of molesting minors in the U.S. since 1950. Abuse-related costs have surpassed $2 billion in that period, with much of the payouts in just the last six years."

UPDATE 9/21/08

The vatican used a policy known as the Crimen Sollicitationis to control sex-abuse scandals to the advantage of the catholic church. It was issued by the vatican and used world-wide as a play book for priest sex-abuse cover-ups.

The document is also known as The Manner of Proceeding in Cases of Solicitation.

Article from the BBC:

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/panorama/5389684.stm

"It instructs them how to deal with priests who solicit sex from the confessional. It also deals with "any obscene external act ... with youths of either sex." "

Quotes form Article:

http://www.bishop-accountability.org/news5/2003_07_29_Shaw_VaticanDocument.htm

Should an accused priest go before a church trial, "in every way the judge is to remember that it is never right for him to bind the accused by an oath to tell the truth."

The directive also says the person who is solicited in the confessional must report the incident to the bishop within a month or to the Holy Office. The accused confessor is required to warn the person confessing of this duty. A person who knowingly failed to denounce the priest incurs excommunication.

I just have to ask, why is a priest-offender (an adult) held to a lower standard of accountability than his emotionally-tramautized child-sex-abuse-victim? This is horrific.

ADDENDUM LINKS

Catholic Priest Offenders:
http://www.bishop-accountability.org/priestdb/#map

Additional Information:
http://www.silentlambs.org/
http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/PUBLICATIONS/factsheet/fsabuse1.htm

Pedophile Criminal Profile:
http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/psychology/pedophiles/7.html

Protestant Church of the Withered Branch

This article is about the damage caused by the Gay Christian Movement to several mainline church denominations including the ECUSA, UCC, Presbyterian Church USA, and Evangelical Lutherans. It's an eye-opener to the magnitude of this problem in Christendom, where this issue is perhaps the greatest church-splitter since the Protestant Reformation.

Preamble

Jesus died for sinners. The purpose of the church is to spread this redeeming message to all sinners. Everyone sins and comes short of the mark. The church is supposed to be open to all sinners. Some of them just happen to be homosexuals. Homosexuals can be saved by Jesus Christ like any other sinner, just as the apostle Paul wrote:

1 Corinthians 6:11
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Christians welcome homosexuals to church, but we do not welcome doctrine that promotes a sinful lifestyle. Some liberal-leaning churches have embraced sin rather than the sinner and that is what this article is about.

Introduction

Liberal theology lacks a biblical message, and its purpose is to make the members feel good about themselves, and about their sinful lifestyles. No change is needed in the heart of the believer, rather everyone is being told they are fine just like they are -- that Jesus makes sin irrelevant -- or even worse than that -- nobody was a sinner to start with.

Biblical Background

Someone might ask why the sin-affirming liberal-doctrine is so bad. There are many answers but let me present an example that gives the picture. It's the Church at Corinth, and it's in the Bible. This church was well known for its temple prostitutes and sexual perversions. As the Bible put it -- even the world shuddered about the Church at Corinth. The apostle Paul wrote:

1 Corinthians 5:1
It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

Yes, a sickening picture where fornication was rampant. The Church of Corinth was utterly destroyed. Today, there is no Church of Corinth -- there are NO NEW MEMBERS. A dead church has NO MEMBERS, nobody sitting in the pews, nobody even preaches there anymore. And a dead church is measured by its MEMBERSHIP -- members keep a church alive. Are we getting the picture?


Attendance Statistics

Looking at the attendance numbers, it is clear that the liberal wing of the church is dieing. The following attendance statistics came from Church Executive Magazine regarding the main line American church denominations.

The winners typically have taken the more conservative approach regarding the sin-pandering gay doctrine:

24. The Orthodox Church in America, 1,064,000 members, reporting an increase of 6.40 percent.
10. Assemblies of God, 2,779,095 members, reporting an increase of 1.81 percent.
4. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 5,999,177 members, reporting an increase of 1.74 percent.
1. The Catholic Church, 67,820,833 members, reporting an increase of .83 percent.

Churches with no change:

5. The Church of God in Christ, 5,499,875 members, no increase or decrease reported.
6. National Baptist Convention, USA, Inc., 5,000,000 members, no increase or decrease reported.
8. National Baptist Convention of America, 3,500,000, no increase or decrease reported.
11. African Methodist Episcopal Church, 2,500,000 members, no increase or decrease reported.
12. National Missionary Baptist Convention of America, 2,500,000 members, no increase or decrease reported.
13. Progressive National Baptist Convention, Inc., 2,500,000 members, no increase or decrease reported
16. Churches of Christ, 1,500,000 members, no increase or decrease reported.
17. Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, 1,500,000 members, no increase or decrease reported.
18. Pentecostal Assemblies of the World, Inc., 1,500,000 members, no increase or decrease reported.
19. The African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church, 1,432,795 members, no increase or decrease reported.
22. Baptist Bible Fellowship International, 1,200,000, no increase or decrease reported.
23. Christian Churches and Churches of Christ, 1,071,615 members, no increase or decrease reported.

Some of the losers are conservative and some are not:

20. American Baptist Churches in the USA, 1,432,840, reporting a decrease of .57 percent.
3. The United Methodist Church, 8,186,254 members, reporting a decrease of .79 percent.
14. The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod (LCMS), 2,463,747, reporting a decrease or 1.01 percent.
2. The Southern Baptist Convention, 16,267,494 members, reporting a decrease of 1.05 percent.
25. Jehovah's Witnesses, 1,029,902 members, reporting a decrease of 1.07 members.


The worst losers are all gay-affirming, including gay clergy that are openly same-sex-partnered and practicing gays and lesbians:

7. Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, 4,930,429, reporting a decrease of 1.09 percent.
15. Episcopal Church, 2,463,747, reporting a decrease of 1.55 percent.
9. Presbyterian Church (USA), 3,189,573 members, reporting a decrease of 1.60 percent.
21. United Church of Christ, 1,265,786, reporting a decrease of 2.38 percent.

News and Headlines

The news headlines and analysis tell us why the membership numbers are falling for these churches:


" Nashville's largest predominantly gay and lesbian church is joining a national Protestant denomination that has seen dozens of churches leave in the last year because of its support for same-sex unions.Holy Trinity Community Church in west Nashville officially will join the United Church of Christ in an installation ceremony Sunday. "


"The just-elected Episcopal presiding bishop, Katharine Jefferts Schori, is a one-woman combination of all these things, having voted for Robinson, blessed same-sex couples in her Nevada diocese, prayed to a female Jesus at the Columbus convention and invited former Newark, N.J., bishop John Shelby Spong, famous for denying Christ's divinity, to address her priests."


"Katherine Schori, leader for the Episcopal Church denomination, calls homosexuality a gift rather than sin as Gene Robinson is ordinated."


"Who we are... Gay-affirming Baptists? No, this is not an oxymoron!Ten years ago, after the lgbt community had been dealt yet another blow by members of their denomination, a group of American Baptist pastors decided that it was time to stand up and declare their affirmation of glbt people. The network of churches they founded, the Association of Welcoming & Affirming Baptists (AWAB), has now grown to more than 60 churches and organizations. AWAB members are Baptist churches, organizations, and individuals who have gone on record as being welcoming and affirming of all persons, without regard to sexual orientation."


"Church defies Presbyterian order to ban gay preachers."


"NEWS ANALYSIS: Methodists Divided on Gay Rights
Church leaders anguish over same-sex unions."


"Yet many conservative Presbyterians believe that passage of the so-called Fidelity and Chastity Amendment will end more than two decades of division over homosexuality. Describing the ordaining of gays as a "direct challenge of the scriptures," the Rev. Jack Harderer, a supporter of the amendment, said, "It has boiled down to the real watershed issue: (do) we believe in the authority of the scripture or do we not?"


"Lutheran leaders look to ease stance on gay pastors.


The Lutheran proposal, which is being spearheaded by Bishop Margaret G. Payne of Massachusetts, would maintain an official requirement that gays and lesbians abstain from homosexual relationships in order to qualify as ministers. But it would allow local church leaders to "refrain from disciplining" congregations that disregard that requirement and hire "partnered" gay or lesbian pastors."


"three years ago, the Presbyterian Church USA, at its general assembly in Birmingham, Ala., was turning itself into the laughingstock of the blogosphere by tacitly approving alternative designations for the supposedly sexist Christian Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Among the suggested names were "Mother, Child and Womb" and "Rock, Redeemer and Friend." Moved by the spirit of the Presbyterian revisionists, Beliefnet blogger Rod Dreher held a "Name That Trinity" contest. Entries included "Rock, Scissors and Paper" and "Larry, Curly and Moe." "

"The Presbyterian Church USA is famous for its 1993 conference, cosponsored with the United Methodist Church, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America and other mainline churches, in which participants "re-imagined" God as "Our Maker Sophia" and held a feminist-inspired "milk and honey" ritual designed to replace traditional bread-and-wine Communion. "


"When a church doesn't take itself seriously, neither do its members. It is hard to believe that as recently as 1960, members of mainline churches — Episcopalians, Presbyterians, Methodists, Lutherans and the like — accounted for 40% of all American Protestants. Today, it's more like 12% (17 million out of 135 million). Some of the precipitous decline is due to lower birthrates among the generally blue-state main liners, but it also is clear that millions of mainline adherents (and especially their children) have simply walked out of the pews never to return. According to the Hartford Institute for Religious Research, in 1965, there were 3.4 million Episcopalians; now, there are 2.3 million. The number of Presbyterians fell from 4.3 million in 1965 to 2.5 million today. Compare that with 16 million members reported by the Southern Baptists. "


"When your religion says "whatever" on doctrinal matters, regards Jesus as just another wise teacher, refuses on principle to evangelize and lets you do pretty much what you want, it's a short step to deciding that one of the things you don't want to do is get up on Sunday morning and go to church."


"Despite the fact that median Sunday attendance at Episcopal churches is 80 worshipers, the Episcopal Church, as a whole, is financially equipped to carry on for some time, thanks to its inventory of vintage real estate and huge endowments left over from the days (no more!) when it was the Republican Party at prayer. Furthermore, it has offset some of its demographic losses by attracting disaffected liberal Catholics and gays and lesbians. The less endowed Presbyterian Church USA is in deeper trouble. Just before its general assembly in Birmingham, it announced that it would eliminate 75 jobs to meet a $9.15-million budget cut at its headquarters, the third such round of job cuts in four years. "


"The Anglican Communion is made up mostly of Bible-believing conservatives, while the majority of Episcopal parishes are characterized as liberal. The Episcopal Church has lost thousands of members over the years. Once 4 million strong, the church now has 870,000 parishioners, Schofield said."


Analysis

The following analysis comes from Rasmussen Reports. In summary the liberal congregations typically support the ordination of gay-lesbian pastors, but the supporting members typically don't attend church. The gay-pastorate doesn't get them back in church either.

From Rasmussen Reports June 30, 2006

Churchgoers Disapprove of Gay and Lesbian Pastors 86% Agree Government Should Stay Out of It.

Is it appropriate for gay and lesbian church members to serve as pastors and bishops in a Christian Church? Two thirds (67%) of those who attend Church weekly say no. Just 27% of those faithful worshippers say yes.

Self-identified Evangelical Christians oppose gay and lesbian pastors by an 80% to 15% margin. Other Protestants oppose such pastors by a 2-to-1 margin while Catholics are nearly evenly divided.

The only demographic group to favor gay and lesbian pastors are those who rarely or never attend church. Among this segment of the population, 49% believe such pastors are appropriate. Thirty-nine percent (39%) disagree.

Among those who attend churches that are growing, just 26% believe it is appropriate to appoint gay and lesbian church leaders. Sixty-six percent (66%) are opposed.

Opinion is more evenly divided in churches with declining attendance.Forty-four percent (44%) of those in declining churches say it is appropriate for gay and lesbian leadership appointments. Forty percent (40%) disagree.

Episcopal Meltdown

This section will be devoted specifically to the Episcopal Church's dilemma. Excerpts come from Reverend Earle Fox and his blog on the The Road to Emmaus.

Episcopal Crisis

This is a reflective write-up by Tucker Carlson, Episcopalian, news anchor, commentator, and pundit for MNBC. It looks at the progressive downward spiraling path taken by Anglican leadership in America.


Why the Episcopal Church has Self-Destructed

"Bishop William Winterrowd ("In the Head, but not the Heart" 6/4/06), makes, I think, precisely the error which has brought the Episcopal Church to its demise -- pitting the legislative against the reconciliation mode, thus putting unity above truth. "

The Episcopal Tragedy and the Coming of Clarity

"I am an Episcopal priest who has labored in that vineyard for over forty years, now watching the Church I loved and cherished self-destruct. There will be a resurrection of sorts, that is a division with one side conforming, more or less, to orthodoxy."

Conclusion

Jesus died for sinners, and that includes all of us. Carnal doctrine, on the other hand, preaches that we are not sinners or that sin no longer matters. Sin-pandering "gay theology" is carnal preaching at its worst. If you claim the name of Christ I hope you haven't fallen for this destructive lie.

Homosexuals have a moral challenge that is difficult. Don't surrender them to satan by telling them it's ok to practice this sexual perversion. It doesn't matter what humanistic psychologists or political special interests say about it. They aren't the experts on morality -- God is.

Don't be a Christian that goes for PC instead of JC. The Bible is clear on this issue. There IS NO debate. Those that raise issues with the Bible translations show their own ignorance. The Bible and Jewish history both tell us in very clear terms that sex with the same-sex IS SIN under ALL circumstances.

Good day and God bless.

Familiar Gay-Affirming Arguments

On a discussion forum, I requested the strongest arguments that gays have to justify their lifestyles.

After hundreds of responses, these were all the arguments the homosexual affirmers came up with to justify the gay lifestyle:

"Jesus never condemned a homosexual."

"I see no issue with sex in a committed long term relationship. Even if in the end the relationship fails."

"I don't believe that homosexuality is wrong; can't you come up with a better excuse for your hate then an archaic book that originated from a xenophobic culture that stoned anyone who was different from themselves?"

"I don't need a reason. I just am. That's enough for me. I don't have to justify it to you, god, or anyone else."

"I don't subscribe to "sin"."

"I think your religion and the book you got it out of is a pack of offensive lies that breed hatred, superstition, and intolerance?"

"What you think doesn't affect me and what homosexuals do doesn't affect you."

"ANYONE can get AIDS. To try and use such an unfortunate set of events to further your hateful Christian agenda is despicable."

"All I see in the bible is "I was hungry, and you fed me."I see nowhere where it calls for people to address the gay issue in church. Can you point out the specific verses?"

"I also think it's funny when people compare homosexuality -- which, so far, no one has proven has any negative consequences -- to things that do have negative consequences, like stealing or alcoholism. I don't know if it's a lack of imagination or what."

"Genetics"

“Normal people don't see why anyone should need an excuse to have gay sex.”

“SOME Christians say the gay lifestyle is sin. Other Christians, who are no less devout and no less concerned with interpreting and following the Bible correctly, disagree.”

Persons that claim to be Christians gave the following comments about the gay lifestyle:


"You ought to keep to yourself and dwell on your own sins and get right with God, rather than saying Christians that are homosexual are not Christian."

“You just want a prop to be a judgmental person, and that's truly sad to behold.”

“Instead of Christians demanding that they themselves end their divorce issues, adultery issues, porn issues, tithing issues, and all the other Biblical teachings we ignore, we can single out gays and demand that they change because it's easier to put demands on others than fix ourselves.”

"Telling someone that they aren't a Christian because of a certain sin, is actually causing many whom would otherwise remain believers to de-convert."

"This is a fine example of the "Christian: as long as they agree with me" attitude that has splintered Christianity into the mess it's in today."

"Sit down Christian. You cannot wave your unread Bible and scare me because I know the larger story that runs through it beginning to end."

“Interpretations of the Bible used to condemn homosexuality are flawed.”

"Is it not better to care for them, lead them to Christ's mercy and let Christ Himself convict them towards the changes they may need."

"Still trying to use a disease to justify prejudice?"

"And let's draw the line in the sand and say, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Who is ready to throw the first stone? Any takers?"

"Matt. 7:1 Do not judge, or you too will be judged."

"Why can't you focus on helping the poor and needy around the world instead of picking on gays."

I provided the following links about the health issues:

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/msm/index.htm

MSM made up more than two thirds (68%) of all men living with HIV in 2005, even though only about 5% to 7% of men in the United States reported having sex with other men.

AIDS awareness not working in America:

Many Gay Men in U.S. Unaware They Have H.I.V., Study Finds


Oxford International Journal of Epidemiology says

"CONCLUSION: In a major Canadian centre, life expectancy at age 20 years for gay and bisexual men is 8 to 20 years less than for all men. If the same pattern of mortality were to continue, we estimate that nearly half of gay and bisexual men currently aged 20 years will not reach their 65th birthday."


Good day and God bless.

Why do fundamentalists single out "Gay Christians" to point out their sin?

Introduction

I have debated this topic for quite a while on a supposedly Christian forum. The acceptance of gay theology is probably the greatest denomination-splitting issue since the Protestant Reformation. This isn't about "picking on gays"; rather it's about a ruinous doctrine that's destroying mainline church denominations.

Biblically speaking, fundamentalist Christians understand same-sex sex to be sin regardless of the reason for it. There are some church denominations that are misleading their congregations to believe it is not sin along with other false doctrines. In the fundamentalist view, the sinner is acceptable, but the sin is not acceptable. We object to calling same-sex sex an acceptable form of Christian conduct, and we object to "gay marriage" as a God-ordained partnership. Because of our belief in the Bible we are labeled intolerant and unloving bigots by gay activists.

Hence, the world sees this as a Christian "holier than thou" persecution of people that want to have gay sex. According to the Bible as we understand it, God will forgive any sinner that wants to be forgiven, but He will never accept his/her sins, and that is why Jesus died on the cross -- so the sinner could be washed clean of his/her sins. This forgiveness requires repentance and faith in Jesus Christ. Without repentance, the sinner remains unforgiven, and when a person denies any type of sin it indicates they probably never-even-once repented of ALL their sins.

Partial repentance is not true repentance biblically speaking. Partial repentance is no better than partial salvation, which is really no salvation at all. God can not forgive a sin unless a person repents of it -- meaning that he/she confesses it is wrong, and no longer wants it in his or her life.

Q&A

Q: Why do Christian fundamentalists single out "gay Christians" and point out their sins? Why don't they pick on adulterers, fat people, drunks, and all the rest?

A: Some of the terminology must be explained first before this question can be answered. The Bible never mentions "sexual orientation"; hence a person's sexual orientation is not sin. Secondly the Bible makes no distinction between bi-sexual, homosexual, or heterosexual acts. If a man has sex with a man, then biblically it is SIN regardless of the reason. The ACT is the sin NOT the ORIENTATION. Hence a person that is ATTRACTED to the same sex BUT DOES NOT ACT on it, is not committing sin biblically speaking. Let's please have that understood.

Sexual orientation does not bar someone from church membership in good standing. People with same sex attraction are encouraged to join the church body and have fellowship. The apostle Paul said some of those in the Christian faith were formerly having same-sex sex:

1 Corinthians 6:11
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Even same-sex-practicing gays are welcome to attend church, but they must respect the doctrine that is taught there. Conservative christians have the following biblical issues with so-called christians that promote this kind of a sexual lifestyle:

1) Practicing same-sex "Gay Christians" single themselves out for rebuttal. They claim they are EXEMPT from the biblical repentance that ALL other Christians are required to experience. "Gay Christians" that practice same-sex sex single themselves out by saying their sinful acts are righteous. In addition these so-called "gay Christians" have formulated a carnal doctrine that promotes their acts as "sinless perfection" in which sin abounds so that grace may more abound.

2) The church body is sick because of the false doctrine. This sin-pandering gay doctrine has infiltrated several liberal-leaning church denominations and it is causing them to split. The most noticeable example is the Episcopal Church in the USA. It has affected other Protestant denominations as well and the damage is clearly visible in lost membership, church closures, and divided congregations.

3) God's holiness deserves respect. Many Christians are offended when people that regularly practice same-sex sex flaunt their sins by calling themselves "gay Christians." We feel it is an insult to God's name and character to associate His name with the acceptance of sin. Understandably, a Christian can fall into sexual sin and remain a Christian. The difference is that a Christian confesses this and all other sins to Jesus Christ. In contrast a so-called "gay Christian" flaunts his or her sinful lifestyle, and claims it is righteous, in direct opposition to what the Bible teaches.

Responses:

Moriah Conquering Wind said...
# of scriptures labeling homosexuality outright as sin: a handful. not a ton, but a few.# of scriptures labeling daimonosexuality outright as sin: ZERO (0)# of daimonosexuals who readily admit their condition to be SIN: ALL# of homosexuals who readily admit their condition to be SIN, without equivocation: WHAT'S WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE??? # of CF moderators openly flaunting their "gayness" yet picking on a daimonosexual for even MENTIONING (with NO detail, NO descriptions, etc.) her orientation in passing, on a sex thread no less: at least two (2), possibly more.

SRF reply:

Dear Moriah,

I am sorry that people misunderstand you. I don't fully understand you either and I apologize for your pain. But I do know this: Jesus loves ALL sinners, and some just happen to be attracted to their own sex. Sexual desire is not a sin, but acting on it inappropriately is a sin. There is no appropriate outlet for gay-sex. This is not meant to blame you, and I try very hard to understand how difficult it must be for somebody to deny who they feel like they are. In our own strength we can not overcome, but in Christ's strength we can. Jesus is so far above me that there is no comparison. I hope you will look at Him instead of looking at me or any others that have not set the right example for you.

Welcome and Introduction

Welcome to the Scripture Refiner's Fire, where the Word of Truth IS rightly divided in love.

The Word of God is being corrupted by false teachers and sin-pandering political interests. The purpose of this blog is to expose the damage these false doctrines are causing to the church body. The church division and spiritual damage is real. It's time to let Christians know the truth in the scriptures. The lies we hear can not stand up to scripture. The Bible has the truth and we need to share it in love.

Scripture Refiner's Fire is here to provide a unified voice for Bible-believing Christians to defend the scriptures.

Shouldn't ALL churches be on the gold standard of God's Word? All other standards are counterfeits. There is only one standard for Christianity -- Jesus Christ. Jesus IS the word of God. There is only ONE REDEEMER -- Jesus Christ. Everything we know about Him comes from the Bible. Those of us that are Christian should respect God's authority as it is revealed in the scriptures just as much as we respect God Himself.

Just a few scriptures to keep in mind:

2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Matthew 5:8
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

Zechariah 13:9
And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

1 Corinthians 3:13
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.